Let Bygones be Bygones
My buddy Jay and I had a round of several emails about his post, which was a response to my post. Our conversation got me thinking...
It seems to me that the only ones who brings up Brian McLaren's Plymouth Brethren background are those who are attempting to marginalize him or explain what he's up to. For instance, in DA Carson's lectures at Cedarville College, he refers to the church of Brian's childhood and Spencer Burke's time at a mega-conservative church in SoCal as evidence that these are simply men who are moving out of fundamentalism. Andy Crouch mentions it in a similar context in the recent CT article.
The funny thing is, in all my time with Brian, I've never heard him mention it. In other words, of all the things by which Brian identifies himself, "formerly Plymouth Brethren" isn't one of them. He was PB thirty years ago! He's no more PB or post-PB now than he is a post-teenager -- it may be true, but it has little to do with his current theological/ecclesiological project.
These people point out his and others' backgrounds as a way to belittle the theology that Brian et al are currently espousing. Like, "Oh, you can understand why he's reacting so strongly once you see that he's a former...FUNDAMENTALIST!" But that is to not take seriously what Brian is really up to. That's no more valid than to say that Brian is developing a new theology for himself because he's lost his hair and he's on a quest for new forms of virility. You see, it's ludicrous.
And it's just as ludicrous to pin theological tags on everyone who's involved in this whole thing. It simply does no good. It's an attempt to paint them into a corner, to "figure them out": "Oh, you just a post-youth minister...seeker sensitive pastor...Lutheran...low church...etc."
So I sense a real predicament brewing. There are those in emergent who are through with all denominational tags, think that modern theological education has ceased to be productive, etc., and there are those who very much want to emerge within the setting of established institutions. Some find the differences and uniquenesses among Protestant traditions to be beneficial, while others find them to be a distraction and a waste of time.
I don't want to create a brouhaha, but I think this may be a massive storm cloud on the horizon.
It seems to me that the only ones who brings up Brian McLaren's Plymouth Brethren background are those who are attempting to marginalize him or explain what he's up to. For instance, in DA Carson's lectures at Cedarville College, he refers to the church of Brian's childhood and Spencer Burke's time at a mega-conservative church in SoCal as evidence that these are simply men who are moving out of fundamentalism. Andy Crouch mentions it in a similar context in the recent CT article.
The funny thing is, in all my time with Brian, I've never heard him mention it. In other words, of all the things by which Brian identifies himself, "formerly Plymouth Brethren" isn't one of them. He was PB thirty years ago! He's no more PB or post-PB now than he is a post-teenager -- it may be true, but it has little to do with his current theological/ecclesiological project.
These people point out his and others' backgrounds as a way to belittle the theology that Brian et al are currently espousing. Like, "Oh, you can understand why he's reacting so strongly once you see that he's a former...FUNDAMENTALIST!" But that is to not take seriously what Brian is really up to. That's no more valid than to say that Brian is developing a new theology for himself because he's lost his hair and he's on a quest for new forms of virility. You see, it's ludicrous.
And it's just as ludicrous to pin theological tags on everyone who's involved in this whole thing. It simply does no good. It's an attempt to paint them into a corner, to "figure them out": "Oh, you just a post-youth minister...seeker sensitive pastor...Lutheran...low church...etc."
So I sense a real predicament brewing. There are those in emergent who are through with all denominational tags, think that modern theological education has ceased to be productive, etc., and there are those who very much want to emerge within the setting of established institutions. Some find the differences and uniquenesses among Protestant traditions to be beneficial, while others find them to be a distraction and a waste of time.
I don't want to create a brouhaha, but I think this may be a massive storm cloud on the horizon.
posted by tony at 7:25 PM
14 Comments:
Tony do you think that this is an issue of power? To marginalize the other is easier than learning from the other. If our theological position is set and not contextual then movement is a bad thing. Just a thought.
Scott
www.knowtown.com/scott/
Should a guy hoping to work in an Emerging Church eventually as a Pastor still go for the M.Div?
hey tony, as a former/post PB i salute you! thanks for going here, as it's frustrating to hear that we can't be 'as emergent' because of our roots. si johnson is also from this background and i don't see people painting him with that type of brush.
yes, for the first bit emerging is 'reactionary' - but that initial rush wears off and life/faith/beliefs become much more about responding than reacting.
i think that pigeon holing anyone in this discussion is counterproductive. understanding background, denominational and national/racial origins is helpful as a baseline - but when used as a constant barrier the conversation goes nowhere.
your 'forecasting' is likely accurate, we can use it to navigate through, or divide apart. i vote for through together. isn't that what this discussion is all about?
I was fortunate to hear McLaren speak at a conference in Nashville in October. He used one of his sessions (an hour in length) to speak about his PB background. It was interesting to listen to him speak about his tradition and how it has influenced him today. So, yes, I've heard him speak about his PB background and I got a sense that his current journey is somewhat of a reaction to his history. Aren't we all reactionary beings, really?
I think the whole emergent thing feels a little dangerous to some because they don't connect with it - but that's no reason to start picking on people's hair, that's what the TBN channel is for.
brian
http://deeper.typepad.com
As a self-professed post-modernist, Tony, you should know that we never escape from our contexts. It is quite legitimate to bring up McLaren's background because, whether he realizes it consciously or not, it DOES influence him.
- Joseph
im sorry.
you all sound so impassioned.
i guess there's value to it, to these kinds of conversations.
im just not seeing it right now.
Andy - just wanted to say, I thought your article was thought provoking and in the end will help the conversation continue.
www.postermeging.modblog.com
John S. Thanks for the new Sig file...
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I think the storm clouds are brewing too. We'll all be marked as heretics soon and there are some who lament the fact that they can't burn us at the stake anymore.
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What P.M.-P.E. person hasn't felt this way?
based on the little I know, there's a small group (or maybe bigger) from the Brethren churches in Malaysia has quite an interest with the ideas from "A New Kind of Christian" :-)
I think part of the reason that there is such an emphasis on emergent's relationship to fundamentalism and evangelicalism is that much of the movement has defined itself in relation to what it is not. Especially as you read A NEW KIND OF CHRISTIAN you see a pastor emerging from a Bible-church type background.
It will be interesting to see how emerging churches see themselves in relation to mainline denominations--although we realize that each individual community will be different. It will also be interesting to see whether denominational structures can survive, and how they adapt, to our rapidly changing culture
The Brethren are the punk rockers of Christendom. With uncompromising vigour they have stripped down the faith to its most basic tunes.
While I have huge admiration for much of punk rock, I choose to listen to music performed by people with fewer piercings. However, just as the Clash helped revitalise music at at time when the sounds of the radio were as moribund as the preaching in many of our churches, time and time again, people of Brethren heritage have done amazing things for the building up of us all.
There's a great article at http://www.christianitymagazine.co.uk/engine.cfm?i=92&id=241&arch=1 but here are a few change makers:
Jim Wallis, Sojourners top dude
FF Bruce, well-known theologian
David Gooding, as above
Robert Gordon, professor of Hebrew, at Cambridge University.
Clive Calver, president of World Relief
Donald Wiseman, professor emeritus of Assyriology at London University and founder member of Tyndale House, Cambridge.
Ram Gidoomal*, London mayoral candidate for the Christian Peoples Alliance, pioneer of left-of centre evangelical thought.
Sir John Laing, builder and founder of the Laing Trust.
Sir Peter Vardy, funded a pioneering City Academy School in north-east England which shaped New Labour policy to faith schools.
Gerald Coates, founder of the Pioneer network.
Roger Forster, founder of Ichthus Christian Fellowship.
Arthur Wallis, widely regarded as the father of the charismatic movement.
The Brethren are the punk rockers of Christendom. With uncompromising vigour they have stripped down the faith to its most basic tunes.
While I have huge admiration for much of punk rock, I choose to listen to music performed by people with fewer piercings. However, just as the Clash helped revitalise music at at time when the sounds of the radio were as moribund as the preaching in many of our churches, time and time again, people of Brethren heritage have done amazing things for the building up of us all.
There's a great article at http://www.christianitymagazine.co.uk/engine.cfm?i=92&id=241&arch=1 but here are a few change makers:
Jim Wallis, Sojourners top dude
FF Bruce, well-known theologian
David Gooding, as above
Robert Gordon, professor of Hebrew, at Cambridge University.
Clive Calver, president of World Relief
Donald Wiseman, professor emeritus of Assyriology at London University and founder member of Tyndale House, Cambridge.
Ram Gidoomal*, London mayoral candidate for the Christian Peoples Alliance, pioneer of left-of centre evangelical thought.
Sir John Laing, builder and founder of the Laing Trust.
Sir Peter Vardy, funded a pioneering City Academy School in north-east England which shaped New Labour policy to faith schools.
Gerald Coates, founder of the Pioneer network.
Roger Forster, founder of Ichthus Christian Fellowship.
Arthur Wallis, widely regarded as the father of the charismatic movement.
The Brethren are the punk rockers of Christendom. With uncompromising vigour they have stripped down the faith to its most basic tunes.
While I have huge admiration for much of punk rock, I choose to listen to music performed by people with fewer piercings. However, just as the Clash helped revitalise music at at time when the sounds of the radio were as moribund as the preaching in many of our churches, time and time again, people of Brethren heritage have done amazing things for the building up of us all.
There's a great article at http://www.christianitymagazine.co.uk/engine.cfm?i=92&id=241&arch=1 but here are a few change makers:
Jim Wallis, Sojourners top dude
FF Bruce, well-known theologian
David Gooding, as above
Robert Gordon, professor of Hebrew, at Cambridge University.
Clive Calver, president of World Relief
Donald Wiseman, professor emeritus of Assyriology at London University and founder member of Tyndale House, Cambridge.
Ram Gidoomal*, London mayoral candidate for the Christian Peoples Alliance, pioneer of left-of centre evangelical thought.
Sir John Laing, builder and founder of the Laing Trust.
Sir Peter Vardy, funded a pioneering City Academy School in north-east England which shaped New Labour policy to faith schools.
Gerald Coates, founder of the Pioneer network.
Roger Forster, founder of Ichthus Christian Fellowship.
Arthur Wallis, widely regarded as the father of the charismatic movement.
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