Merry Christmas, Dear Commenters
So, I called my local Roman Catholic priest to ask him if Emergent is, indeed, simply Catholic as some of my commenters indicate. He called his bishop's cell phone, and his bishop left Benedict XVI a voice mail. Benedict got back to him a couple hours later, via email. It was merely one line, and bullish at that:
"Emergentum est extra ecclesiam."
I guess that settles it.
"Emergentum est extra ecclesiam."
I guess that settles it.
posted by tony at 1:52 PM
38 Comments:
This answer typifies what we've learned to expect from those within emergent who can't answer, or doesn't want to deal with, tough questions. You are only cheating yourself (and emergent).
It is answers like these that make emergent hypocrites. They say they are a conversation, but are they? This answer doesn't seem to promote conversation, but rather it is sarcastic BS.
I might add, this blog has yet to answer the very good questions of Mary and Hammy: please distinguish epistemologically asethetic truth vs. existential truth vs. holistic truth. Maybe you can call the pope to settle this one as well...
what a joke
PS
THE KING OF TWIST also asked this question as well
¡Feliz Navidad a todos y a todo el Theoblogy feliz! Convengo con el rey de la torcedura, de Maria, de Harry, y de Hammy. Todos de quién traen a la tabla una pregunta más excelente. ¿Nuestro pseudo teólogo del amature del varsity menor no se parece capaz de contestarle, althought que él puede utilizar palabras grandes, pero él entiende allí significar? Es como un muchacho pequeño con un diccionario sin un cerebro.
Well, at the risk of adding more sarcastic BS....
You've had a rough couple of months, Tony. The pope pronounces you out, and on top of that you STILL haven't responded to me from August, when I PROVED Emergent isn't really the church, by your own words...
http://greggsgambles.blogspot.com/2005/08/winning-wrong-contest.html
Gregg,
Although I think you had a panzy-azz argument, i appreciate you commenting here on my thread. And I appreciate the evidence you bring to the table of just another time someone from the emergent conversation shuns conversation.
and Miguel,
I'm not sure what you've written, my espanola translation is a bit rusty, but I get the gist of it: you support my thread here in asking for someone to defend what she or he says. Adios comrad
Hello,
I enjoy this blog. I am a first time poster, long time reader. My niece Carla, told me about the church she attends and all about emergent. I have one question which I have yet to have answered here by your blog,
"Is emergent a church?" What is it?
Merry Christmas and God Bless
Gregg,
It is fitting of emergent not to defend what they say, but rather just spew forth large words like holistic, missional, existential, asethic, etc. without backing up what they say or ground their claims in concrete reality. It is kind of like fantasy, that is why I now put emergent on the same level as mormamism, scientolgoy, and dungeons and dragons...
Oh man. I'm out.
Look, let me be really clear: my post was a joke. I'm not piling on Tony. I'm amazed at the tone of these comments.
I'm open for any conversation you want, and invite you to look at other posts on my blog that are more serious in nature.
Let me also say, I believe Tony to be someone with a sharp theological mind who is also doing everything he can to help others follow Jesus. You can resume your name calling, theological bickering, and dismissive comments now.
Merry Christmas Tony-I hope you and your family have a peaceful one.
A safe and thoughtful Christmas to you and the fam Tony - viva la conversation!
tony you have quite a following of
groupies who like to post on your site. they all appear to be unemployable superheros, thus allowing for them to save the world one hatefilled blog comment at a time. They are posting so much it's becoming background noise for your blog. It's a become predictable formula.
First invent a name.
Harry, Bill or Carla will do.
Then they spew more gas and crap than the irritable bowel all-you-can-eat chili cookoff and campout.
then they cap it off with a bogus URL..
IT'S FREAKING HILARIOUS!!!
and oh so creative... it's making me rethink all of my understandings about God.
If they'd only do this in spanish.
riddle
Tony,
I wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas.
In His Peace,
Jamie
Tony,
After thinking about it I agree that you do skirt many issues. If you are going to have a blog you might as well defend what you say. At least I do in my blog.
Carla, who are you? Reveal thyself you uemployed superheroess you. Shame Shame
riddle
I am really quite surpirsed that Hammy is getting Hammered here. Gregg is accusing him of hostility and riddle is employing the same sarcasam as Tony. I think Hammy asks a legite question and all he (she?) is getting in return is put-downs. Is that how emergent works?
The only thing proved by this thread seems to be that Hammy is correct that emergent resorts to sarcasam and put downs in the face of honest theological conversation. If emergent is what it says it is, then it seems a fair question of Hammy and a fair expectation would be to dialogue with him (her?). But you only prove his point by back bitting and name calling. It's disappointing.
King of Twist,
¡Hanaukah feliz! Su español es pobre pero mi intelecto superior permite que lea dentro del contexto y que entienda lo que intenta su cerebro pequeño verter hacia fuera. Convengo eso con usted que Tony es una muchacha pequeña con un diccionario grande y una cabeza y una mente pequeñas. Éste se parece ser el caso con la mayoría de la gente implicada en inesperado. Hermano y amigo bien, en el alcohol de Bob Dylan, digo a usted el nowkeep en keepin encendido."
This once thoughtful blog has been turned in to a giant pile of garbage by the likes of Harry, Migeul, Riddle, Carla and the "Fat Man."
Well boys and girls, have fun.
you too King of Twist - you too have ruined this blog
and Jaime from Winnipeg, thanks for nothing
Gregg,
guilt by association
Merry Christmas everyone
I am really quite surpirsed that Hammy is getting Hammered here. Gregg is accusing him of hostility and riddle is employing the same sarcasam as Tony. I think Hammy asks a legite question and all he (she?) is getting in return is put-downs. Is that how emergent works?
The only thing proved by this thread seems to be that Hammy is correct that emergent resorts to sarcasam and put downs in the face of honest theological conversation. If emergent is what it says it is, then it seems a fair question of Hammy and a fair expectation would be to dialogue with him (her?). But you only prove his point by back bitting and name calling. It's disappointing.
8:38 AM
Who posted this???? I did not write it and I don't appreciate my name being used with someone else's crap. If you are going to post have the decency to use your own name!
Tony - if you are looking for a diamond in amongst the Christmas coal here - let me assure you that as a regular old youth pastor living "in the trenches" I totally appreciate your unwillingness to answer all the questions.
Thank you for letting us grow by the journey!
Check this out for a Christmas laugh:
Tony Jones job description
Later-
James <><
sorry - here's the link I meant to post >>
http://reorient.blogspot.com/2005/12/tony-jones.html#comments
you see? this is what I am talking about: people slandering each other's post using words like "crap" - why is it "crap"?
Please keep this on a professional level
Tony,
I thoroughly enjoy your sarcasm.
Harry,
What good will it do for Tony to answer your question?
Everyone,
Merry Christmas.
Tank,
The man said scripture entails an asethic turth, a holistic truth, and an existential truth. All I (along with others) ask is that we clarifies these three terms. It is simple. If he uses these terms, certainly he can define them for us right?
Merry Christmas!
Tank,
What good won't it do if Tony answers the question? In other words, what good is it for one to throw around words he/she has no idea what they mean? I ask you, what good will it do if Tony doesn't answer the question?
el ohhh, esta conversación está haciendo mi vuelta principal. Por favor, algún me da algún Tequila para remediar mi dolencia. Espero que coloquemos esta edición pronto. ¡Para en cuanto a mí, estoy apagado a la barra un poco de yema y un burrito con las habas!
dang, it's bad enough i have to look up all tony's academic terminology (which is no joke), now i have to learn latin & spanish..
Blessed Christmastide T
Harry,
Fair enough, what good will it do for him not to answer the question? Not very motivating, but I guess it is a fair question. I don't think it is useful for Tony to define these terms, especially for his critics, because inevitably it will cause you to become a bigger critic of Tony, it seems that everyone is out to crucify Tony instead of converse with him. It seems to me, and this is only my opinion and could be completely wrong, that you (and others) are trying to prove Tony to be a heretic instead of having a conversation that helps to make the world and church better places (which, if I am not mistaken, is the conversation that Tony and Emergent are interested in.)
OK, I just thought it was funny.
Merry Christmas, Tony. Man you sure get hacked at on your blog. In spite of any minor quibbles I have with some of the folks at Emergent, I think you're really struggling through some very important, tough questions. Those of you who think Tony and others at Emergent are skirting the tough issues are probably resting safely within hundreds of years of thought out doctrinal traditions. When you begin to work theology afresh for a new era, it is always difficult and tricky business. Keep up the good work, Tony.
makes you wonder if it's worth having a blog mate :-)
loved this post, gave me chuckle
Have a great christmas.
A few questions. A few comments.
If emergent is treated by people who respond to it as if it were a denomination, though it has no denominational aspirations (in fact, would fail if it were one), is it or is it not a denomination?
Can something truly emerge from 500 years of denominational context? And if it could, would we know it if we saw it?
Can it converge religious fragments into something pan-Christian?
Emergent is merely an organized (organized is likely overstated) response to the church that is emerging here, there, and everywhere. It is merely one of many responses. This emerging that the church is doing must be happening in so many places since it looks so familiar to very contrasting fragments of Christianity.
As the coordinator of the organization called, Emergent, Tony is not worthy of so much attack. That's not an insult to Tony, but rather it is a description of the place he has in the church that is emerging. Tony's got a mouth. Big deal. The people who attack him as being too much or more than he is (or whatever) only give him and overly exalted ststus by their comments. The attacks merely accomplish the opposite of their intended result -which strikes me as ironic and humorous.
I guess it might be kinda late for this, but I have a thought concerning these people accusing Emergent/the emerging church of being Catholicism repackaged.
Detractors of this movement can and have said that it is a repackaging of any number of strains of Christianity. As a movement, the emerging church has qualities of Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Lutheranism, maybe some Calvinism, continuing with Anglicanism, Methodism, Pentecostalism, the Charismatic movement, the Jesus movement, conservative Evangelicalism, and liberal Protestantism. Which, currently I haven't yet had the opportunity to read A Generous Orthodoxy, but I would guess that that might be what is being said.
Which is great, but specifically, I'm just thinking about how interesting that it is that the detractors are making these accusations that the emerging church movement is like ... whatever movement they think is distorting the gospel.
C.S. Lewis basically stated that Christians who are at the core of whichever variety are closer to each other than the psychos on the fringe of each variety. Which fits, of course, with what those in favor of this movement are saying as well as, we observe, what the detractors are saying. Interesting.
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